I know…
That title sounds like something from the latest Memorable Quotes from Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan page…
But, no… This item is no joke…
I was just browsing around the world of blogs and came across this post on a feminist’s blog site. Apparently, she wrote an item about rape… And someone left the following comment:
Hi,
Actually I landed on this e-page while searching information, how to avoid women’s or girls? In my environment there are more women’s and girls with skirts and tops. I attempt many times to change the environment, as if my fate goes wrong where I go in some way or other way I have interact such women’s or girls. Most of time when self conious of herself, my mind never thinks of sex with her. But when women’s and girls are very open, I could hardly control myself. So far I am controlling by leaving the place of short time and join the work after sometime. On the other hand its not possible to leave such environment all the time.Anyways, I would like question the originator of the article and he/she defended the victim and blames fully on rapist.
My question is how he/she is going to mark a line in between seduction and attempt to rape or rape.
Your answer is highly appreciated for a guy like me who could be a future rapist.
Here’s my reply to her reply…
First, thanks for posting this item.
However, I think you’re missing the main point of Mr. Could-be-a-Future-Rapist’s message…
Your reply to him seems to be all very true… and you’d likely have a very hard time finding anyone — including me — who would disagree with what you are saying. It is the conventional wisdom of the day, in fact.
HOWEVER… I think that the point that Mr. Could-be-a-Future-Rapist is making… or, rather, asking about… has gone completely unanswered…
It is NOT a matter of what the woman wants. That’s not what he is asking about… He is not asking if the woman WANTS to be raped, or even to have sex with him at all… That is not his point.
In our modern culture — and more and more in recent years — women are intentionally dressing more and more provocatively… More and more sexy… To the point that today’s ‘norm’ in young women’s fashion… is MORE provocative (sexy, sleazy, etc.) than yesteryear’s ‘norm’ in street hooker “fashion”…
Who can deny this to be true?
If you put a mound of sugar out on your back patio in the summertime, you are going to attract ALL of the ants.
You can tell the world that it was not your intention to attract ants. Or you can tell the world that it was your intention only to attract CERTAIN ants, but not ALL the ants…
The world would then know that you are a fool.
Put out sugar, and you attract ALL ants. Simple.
To then claim that YOU have no responsibility for the ant situation on the patio… And that it is the ants, in fact, who are responsible… would further confirm your status as a fool. (by the way, when I refer to “you” here, I am not referring to you…. but to “one”, anyone, in general…)
Adult men DO have ultimate responsibility for their own behaviour, obviously. They are not ants.
However, most women have ABSOLUTELY NO CONCEPT of the POWER that sexual attraction has on a man. Women are not men. Men are driven by sex first, feelings second. Women are driven by feelings first, and sex second.
Dressing as sexually provocative as a streetwalker who’s late on the rent…. and parading around in front of men in public like this… Can be like smoking crack in front of a crackhead. Or at the very least, playing drinking games till everyone is in a drunken stupor… in front of a recovering alcoholic.
Sorry, I don’t drink in front of alcoholics in recovery. I DO claim some responsibility for being a thoughtful compassionate human being. I don’t GET MY JOLLIES TRYING TO TEMPT PEOPLE BEYOND THEIR HUMAN ABILITY TO WITHSTAND THAT TEMPTATION… Only to watch them cave…. And then to declare them weak… And criticize them and blame them and laugh at them…
I think MANY women get their jollies — cheap thrills — playing with the sex drives of healthy adult men. They play with them as if they are teasing the animals at the zoo with hints of food…
And then laughing at them… for the sake of entertainment.
And if they get raped…
They had no responsibility for it whatsoever.
Because politically correct society in 2006 gives them blanket immunity to blame.
Bruce Wagner
http://brucewagner.com
What do YOU think? Click “Comment” and tell us…
~
Absolutely!!!
I agree with what you said.
It is rediculous the way women dress now days…..half their breasts are showing. That would be like showing half of man’s private part…
I can’t say that it is their FAULT of they get raped…..but the way some women dress should give them SOME degree of responsibility.
On the other hand, NO means NO. And in my day, men generally didn’t not pay any attention to that and kept trying.
They kept on trying and felt it was OK to keep on trying. I have had more than one guy just keep after me …..saying…..ALL the girls do it…. My response….
I KNOW all the girls don’t do it because I don’t.
They would say, Well, everyone ELSE does!
And I would tell them to go out with them, then.
They couldn’t argue with that.
I would spend an entire afternoon saying, “No”. or evening.
And came very close to date rape.
Now I know what to call it.
There were some VERY DETERMINED young men out there.
I never dressed provocatively — quite the opposite.
But I had a nice trim figure.
My DEMEANOR would put them off. I found that to be true in business situations. I dealt mainly with men. Some would flirt….but I would ignore them and continue in a business-like manner.
NOW men are taught that NO means NO and to back off.
And the way they DANCE! Goodness gratious. They dance like simulated sex.
I saw where one high school closed down the dances because of the way the kids danced. Talked to the parents.
And here is my response to Bruce’s comment.
The guy who asked how to avoid becoming a potential rapist is Indian. I can tell by the way he writes. I live in India. You could walk around in a potato sack or full niqab like a Saudi woman and still you will get molested because the men in North India live totally sexually repressed lives.
The girls in “skirts and tops” as he says – believe me, those skirts and tops are conservative by American or Western Euro standards, and he’s still hot and bothered!
I go to American beaches in bikinis and no one ever bothers me. In India I am covered head to tow in baggy clothes and I get molested constantly.
Rape or molestation really has nothing to do with what a woman is wearing. And this is the opinion based on the experiences of a woman who has been molested in public in India many, many time. So Bruce, rethink your stance.
Ok, yes…
I WILL give you that… Pardesi…
The “Sexual Repression Meter” of a country… or a culture… surely is the NUMBER ONE FACTOR in the amount of rape or molestation there…
The more sexually repressed men are, overall, the more they will tend to act out… in a culture… i.e. rape and molestation.
But, if a woman is TRYING VERY HARD TO DRESS SEDUCTIVELY… That is most certainly a secondary factor. What a woman wears is NOT irrelevant.
If it WERE irrelevant, so many women would not try so hard, and spend so much money, to look more and more sexy and seductive…
Thinking Girl,
I agree with much of what you previously said (in response to “Future Rapist”…) But not all of it.
One CAN clearly see evidence of a woman’s intentions, or desires, by what she is wearing or how she is acting.
“Social pressures on women to act and dress provocatively exist.” However, women are TOTALLY 100% responsible for their own actions. If women choose to cave in to those so-called “pressures” to become sexual temptresses… And PLAY with the sex drives of men… Then they are playing with FIRE.
When I said, that “most women have ABSOLUTELY NO CONCEPT of the POWER that sexual attraction has on a man.” What I MEANT was: (1) Every woman knows about the power that sexual attraction has on a man – that’s why so many dress as sexually provocative as they can… HOWEVER, (2) Most women have absolutely no concept of exactly HOW powerful that sexual attraction can be… on a man. (because they are not men.)
In other words, they all know it explodes. They just don’t know they are playing with an atom bomb. They think they are playing with matches, when in reality, they are playing with an atom bomb.
Yes, women who dress provocatively are intentionally enticing male sexuality, and they DO share responsibility for the consequences – to some extent.
They are NOT totally to blame.
But they are NOT totally innocent and blame-free either.
Yes, by dressing provocatively, some women are complicit in their own rapes. As I said, they don’t know the power of the fire they choose to play with… Then, when the bomb explodes, they blame the bomb 100%.
“Asking for it? Desiring it, even?” No. Just plain ignorant about it.
YES, ALL women should know that men simply can’t control the wild animal that sleeps inside their pants.
YES, Absolutely! As a MAN, I can explain it to you.
Men are NOT like women. And women are NOT like men.
If you don’t believe me, you tread at your own risk.
“Your argument hinges on an essentialized view of men – namely, that men’s biological sexual urges control them to the point that they are powerless to resist… even as you affirm that men do have responsibility for their behaviour.”
Yes! The best way to explain it is with an analogy: Men = crackheads. Women = crack. The urges control them to the point that they are powerless to resist, yes! Even so, they are ultimately responsible for their own behavior. Therein lies the paradox. But that’s the way it is.
“In our society, we don’t consider it acceptable to hold someone responsible for something that is out of their control – for example, people with mental illnesses are exempted from criminal punishment and instead treated psychiatrically.”
Oh, but we DO… Hense, the crackhead example…
“So, which is it? Are men helpless, or are they responsible?”
Both.
“Are men really as helpless as crack addicts in terms of controlling themselves around women who are dressed provocatively? Considering that not all men rape women who are dressed provocatively, I think we have our answer.”
[LOL I used my analogy of the crackhead above BEFORE reading yours. Honest! How funny!]
Yes, men really ARE as helpless as crack addicts around crack. THAT is what women just do NOT understand… The more crack you show them, the more helpless they become…. Normal men… ALL men…
“Are women purposely tempting men, or are they clueless?”
Both. They are purposely tempting men…. Playing them… But they are clueless as to HOW MUCH power their crack holds over the head of the crackhead (all normal men)….
“Or, perhaps, women are intentionally trying to entice men only to a certain point, but then they don’t realize when they have crossed some imaginary line beyond which men cannot control themselves?”
THAT is what I mean by… “Playing with Men”. They play with men the way one might tease a dog. Show him the bone. Let him smell the bone. Let him bite on the bone. They jerk it away. They tease and taunt intentionally….. as would be forbidden with the animals at the zoo!
Women know every little thing they can use to become more sexually attractive. What they DON’T know… it how much power they are toying with. And many, frankly, don’t care… They look at the men as animals which are just fun to tease…
“Your view of “what men are like” and “what women are like” is seriously flawed. Not all men are driven by “sex first, feelings second” – and not all women are driven by “feelings first, sex second.” There are lots of men out there who are more interested in a loving relationship than with sex. And there are plenty of women out there who are far more interested in sex than they are in a relationship.”
No, my view is not flawed. It is the norm. It is 99.9% typical in reality. Many people are in denial though, and most people lie a lot.
“Rape is not about sex; it is about power.”
Yadda yadda yadda. Some WOMAN wrote that.
Rape is about sex.
If rape is not about sex, then dressing like a street hooker is about honoring religion.
“Of course some women dress provocatively on purpose, to attract male attention.”
Yes. Playing with Fire.
[...] Lies, and Videotape: Men, Women, and Rape A post I wrote last month, called How to Avoid Becoming a Rapist, has spawned a bit of a [...]
Very well said!
You’re very right. They have NO idea.
Atom bomb, I like that !
[...] How to Avoid Becoming a Rapist [...]
Thinking Girl,
coulple things,
1. The current social norm is to dress sexy.
2. Men have final control to not stick there *** in.
3. While it is hard to resist a sexy woman, its not imposable, or even rocket science. Don’t get me wrong, I eye every hot chick that goes to my campus, and I undress them in my head and **** the living crap out of them with my eyes. but when it comes to acting on those thoughts, its completely out of the question.
4. um I really don’t have a 4 just wanted to put it in here. Peace all!
I will also like to point out that regardless of what most people think….there are women who dress in what is regarded as a provocative outfit because they, personally want to feel sexy about them selves…and its not all about men. when i go out with my friends the way i dress has to do with me wanting to feel good about myself and not about necessary attracting men. I also think that the rape myth of men not being able to control them selves is exactly what it is called….a myth…and nothing more.
That excuse can not be used when they clime into some one’s house and rape them in their bedroom can it???? Just that example itself shows that rape is about power…it is often premediated and planned out. reseach has also shown that rapist often go for women whos demeanor is one of self consciousness and people who are not very confident. I am actually writing a paper about rape myths and it scares me that so many people will actually make excuses for the rapist….this is one of the main reasons why so many rape cases goes unreported because there are poeple out there who will blame the victim. fair enough dont put ur self in a suitation where you might be raped….sadly it come to this…a world where people have to restrict their movement… have to be careful about their body language and worry about expressing them selves through the way they dress. basically the rapists have won, they are in control and are just waiting for one person to make a wrong movement like perhapes wearing a revealing clothing….
the only way to fight back is to rebel against rape myths…sadly its not that simple…while im all against rape myths, my question is where did they orginate from? sadly there are women out there who cry rape for revenge among other excuses which in turn means that there are men who are innocent and are being victimised.
You are all confused as to what you are talking about. Essentially, not all rapists are the same is the point you are missing. Not men, not women, but rapists. There are two broad categories that I think you need to consider:
1. Serial rapists. Live on the outskirts of society. Will rape nearly anyone, stalkers, planners. Usually ugly or socially/sexually inept people, possibly even by choice. More than a little crazy in other ways.
2. Normal guys who have had too much to drink or are around too many other men who will peer pressure them into raping girls at parties with drugs, etc.
Two very different things that you’re talking about, and women and the men who love them need to be aware of both.